Hi all,
sorry for this long rant - if your Sunday is packed full of activity, you may skip this mail peacefully.
An acquaintance of mine asked me to recover an old Laptop that no OS on it. I did using the latest ubuntu. I made her aware of all "caveats": "this laptop won't run Windows programs". She was fine with it. The laptop is for her child, which attends local German elementary school.
After a while she contacted me again, worried: her child needs "Blitzrechnen" from the German publisher Klett, since at school they would train mental arithmetic. I've been confronted with this when my youngest was at elementary school, a similar Windows software I don't recall, and was able to make it run using Wine. My acquaintance got a no cost copied CD-R from school with the password written on it.
I wasn't able to get "Blitzrechnen" running - I tried several Wine versions each 32 and 64 bit - the app is not complex, seems like a series of flash animated pages where the user is asked to solve math problems, nicely drawn with animals and stuff. The publisher himself has updated his learning material: it is now available via Android/iOS app - but I presume she has to pay for it.
This situation really makes me upset, since she is forced to make use of a Windows 7, 8, 8.1, or 10 (or macOS) to make it run *if exactly this software is needed*. There should be no barriers to get children equipped with learning material, and if it gets digital, those barriers should be compliant to learning standards, *not to market ones*.
There is no orchestrated guideline in our local education it seems. Each school proceeds by its own "ideas" and "means". Back in the days, in Germay, I was aware of the "Kultusminister Konferenz" - one of its mission is to set those standards, i.e. "to work towards securing quality standards in schools, vocational training and higher education" (https://www.kmk.org/kmk/aufgaben.html), whereas here, locally, there is none such effort.
Digital Sustainability should be introduced when it comes to digital learning material - at least it should elaborate principles, where access to learning material has low hurdles (like, for e.g., available both on and offline through a browser, from as many OSes as possible). Those standards should then be respected by local schools and higher education institutes.
And I am deliberately not touching on the subject of cost efficiency in this matter: In a public administration context that does not take into account final cost statements, it makes little sense.
And, yes, I will made her aware of free alternative math training apps, but the child will not be able to use the same app. At the end, we're talking about math here. Does learning math need one special software? If yes, then we're doomed.
Cheers, #pasquale
About Anton.de : I got in touch with them, asking if they where planing to translate the app in Italian (part of it is availabe in Spanish) and/or they may accept an "open" collaboration, depite from technical difficulties. The answer was quite short: no plan for such activity in the short/medium time.
On Monday, 22 November 2021, Paolo Dongilli paolo.dongilli@lugbz.org wrote:
*Da: *Pasqualino Imbemba *A: *lugbz-list@lists.lugbz.org *Data: *22 nov 2021 07:58:41 *Oggetto: *[Lugbz-list] Re: Digital Sustainability in education - a bad
example
This make me (free) think:
- I suggest there should be a SaaS solution[1], an educational platform,
open to all schools, pupils and teachers - made in SouthTyrol, where education by digital means is offered with low to no barriers (the user needs a device with popular Hardware features and OSes - not *a specific one* (user freedom);
- this SaaS educational solution is GDPR compliant, and -specific-
governs the principles "least privilege" and "need to know" for all data and operations that it contains;
- the public local government pays for the SaaS solution and offers
economic contribution to low incomes for purchasing Hardware and access to broadband;
- ...
[1] Education in a browser sort of.
Good idea Pasquale. On the other side I ask myself why Anton.app, co-financed by the European
Regional Development Fund isn't available as Free Software.
Let's take a look at https://anton.app/ (Legal Notice) if we can do
something maybe with a little help from the FSFE.
Best, Paolo.
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*Da: *Pasqualino Imbemba *A: *lugbz-list@lists.lugbz.org *Data: *22 nov 2021 07:58:41 *Oggetto: *[Lugbz-list] Re: Digital Sustainability in education - a bad example
This make me (free) think:
- I suggest there should be a SaaS solution[1], an educational platform, open to all schools, pupils and teachers - made in SouthTyrol, where education by digital means is offered with low to no barriers (the user needs a device with popular Hardware features and OSes - not *a specific one* (user freedom);
- this SaaS educational solution is GDPR compliant, and -specific- governs the principles "least privilege" and "need to know" for all data and operations that it contains;
- the public local government pays for the SaaS solution and offers economic contribution to low incomes for purchasing Hardware and access to broadband;
- ...
[1] Education in a browser sort of.
Good idea Pasquale. On the other side I ask myself why Anton.app, co-financed by the European Regional Development Fund isn't available as Free Software. Let's take a look at https://anton.app/ (Legal Notice) if we can do something maybe with a little help from the FSFE.
Best, Paolo.
Am 21.11.21 um 22:52 schrieb Paolo Dongilli:
21 novembre 2021 21:49, "Hugo Leiter" hugoleiter@gmail.com wrote:
Diego,
German schools use Windows10 and in some school districts ChromeOs. Perhaps there is some interest in LibreOffice and Ubuntu. Mainly because both are well known [...]
Hi Hugo, hi everybody.
The topic opened by Pasquale is quite important and it is not which GNU/Linux distribution is better suited for schools in German language in South Tyrol. The point is that there are still applications bought several years ago and used in schools (as e.g. Blitzrechnen - https://www.mathe2000.de/cd-rom-blitzrechnen-0) which cannot be used at home by every student (digital divide) in particular by those students who have a GNU/Linux PC.
The need to use "Blitzrechnen CD-Roms" was one of the reasons why in the Elementary school "Alexander Langer" in Bozen (having both German and Italian classes) the shared IT-lab was migrated from GNU/Linux to Windows 10 with the configuration (not needed) of an additional Windows-based school server.
Paolo.
Thanks Paolo, and Gianguido as well. The "Alexander Langer" (!) choice baffles me: both in action and for the name they carry.
This make me (free) think: - I suggest there should be a SaaS solution[1], an educational platform, open to all schools, pupils and teachers - made in SouthTyrol, where education by digital means is offered with low to no barriers (the user needs a device with popular Hardware features and OSes - not *a specific one* (user freedom); - this SaaS educational solution is GDPR compliant, and -specific- governs the principles "least privilege" and "need to know" for all data and operations that it contains; - the public local government pays for the SaaS solution and offers economic contribution to low incomes for purchasing Hardware and access to broadband; - ...
[1] Education in a browser sort of.
Cheers #pasquale
21 novembre 2021 21:49, "Hugo Leiter" hugoleiter@gmail.com wrote:
Diego,
German schools use Windows10 and in some school districts ChromeOs. Perhaps there is some interest in LibreOffice and Ubuntu. Mainly because both are well known [...]
Hi Hugo, hi everybody.
The topic opened by Pasquale is quite important and it is not which GNU/Linux distribution is better suited for schools in German language in South Tyrol. The point is that there are still applications bought several years ago and used in schools (as e.g. Blitzrechnen - https://www.mathe2000.de/cd-rom-blitzrechnen-0) which cannot be used at home by every student (digital divide) in particular by those students who have a GNU/Linux PC.
The need to use "Blitzrechnen CD-Roms" was one of the reasons why in the Elementary school "Alexander Langer" in Bozen (having both German and Italian classes) the shared IT-lab was migrated from GNU/Linux to Windows 10 with the configuration (not needed) of an additional Windows-based school server.
Paolo.
Diego, German schools use Windows10 and in some school districts ChromeOs. Perhaps there is some interest in LibreOffice and Ubuntu. Mainly because both are well known : https://ubuntu.com/desktop/statistics
Take a look at our 300+ Fuss10 installations done in AdaLab, Ecolnet, FranzLab: how many German school students or German native speaking students are currently using Fuss10 and are happy with it? On the other hand, several million use Ubuntu worldwide: https://ubuntu.com/desktop/statistics
How many have heard of Fuss10? We have to face that reality and act accordingly:
We certainly can continue with only Fuss10 in school-swap, but the vast majority of our target recipients will continue to be Immigrants and residents going to Italian schools, already familiar with Fuss10.
That’s also fine with me, after all you, Diego, are doing the biggest job in preparing the hardware!
Take care Hugo
Diego Maniacco diego.maniacco@gmail.com schrieb am So. 21. Nov. 2021 um 11:50:
Hi Pasquale. I agree to your description, the political direction for, sead to say, the German speacking schools in Southtirol is since many years unacceptable, totally based on just one proprietary solution. Instead of choose Ubuntu OS why not give a try to FUSS-10 in the last update ( https://www.fuss.bz.it/)? Based on Debian-10 + xfce, is packed with educational software which was tested before adding to the distro. Developed for/from the Italian speaking schools of Southtirol since 16 years, may have an alternative solution for Math. In the SchoolSwap project we got positive experiences from German speacking schoolars who received a FUSS10gbased PC from the project. About Math in un elementary schools: in my knowledge the most German speacking ones have formal contracts with https://anton.de, which is an ensamble of nice web-applications covering Math also. The school involved in the described story may not be happy with such solution? As Gianguido wrote, we suffer under an unregulated "autonomia didattica", which seems to run just for teachers. Nobody talk about "autonomia didattica" looked from students and families point of view. By, diego
On Sunday, 21 November 2021, Gianguido Piani via Lugbz-list < lugbz-list@lists.lugbz.org> wrote:
On Sun, 2021-11-21 at 10:50 +0100, Pasqualino Imbemba wrote:
Hi all,
And, yes, I will made her aware of free alternative math training apps, but the child will not be able to use the same app. At the end, we're talking about math here. Does learning math need one special software? If yes, then we're doomed.
Cheers, #pasquale
Hi!
It's Sunday and the *rant* was interesting.
I can only add two pieces of information.
In South Tyrol one Party is systematically pushing for the arguments you indicate, another Party is somewhat less active, but still follows these matters. Both these Parties are in the opposition. The most important local Party (no names named) is absolutely against the principles you mention. At least they are consequent, because they are against free software both in words and in deeds. Let's recognize it - no hypocrisy.
The second consideration is that on the Raspberry Pi operating system, in the Russian Linux distribution "Astra" and, if I remember well, also in the Chinese Ubuntu Kylin distribution some educational math packages are part of the main installation. You don't even need to look for them in the store, they are ready to be started from the main menu. One click, and you go. It's an indirect message from the developer (Raspberry Pi) and the Authorities (Russia and China). An important one.
Raspberry Pi was initially developed for sale in 3rd world countries in particular to support their educational efforts. Astra and Kylin shall become normative in their respective countries, including in schools. The problem you describe wouldn't arise there.
Gianguido
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Hi Pasquale. I agree to your description, the political direction for, sead to say, the German speacking schools in Southtirol is since many years unacceptable, totally based on just one proprietary solution. Instead of choose Ubuntu OS why not give a try to FUSS-10 in the last update ( https://www.fuss.bz.it/)? Based on Debian-10 + xfce, is packed with educational software which was tested before adding to the distro. Developed for/from the Italian speaking schools of Southtirol since 16 years, may have an alternative solution for Math. In the SchoolSwap project we got positive experiences from German speacking schoolars who received a FUSS10gbased PC from the project. About Math in un elementary schools: in my knowledge the most German speacking ones have formal contracts with https://anton.de, which is an ensamble of nice web-applications covering Math also. The school involved in the described story may not be happy with such solution? As Gianguido wrote, we suffer under an unregulated "autonomia didattica", which seems to run just for teachers. Nobody talk about "autonomia didattica" looked from students and families point of view. By, diego
On Sunday, 21 November 2021, Gianguido Piani via Lugbz-list < lugbz-list@lists.lugbz.org> wrote:
On Sun, 2021-11-21 at 10:50 +0100, Pasqualino Imbemba wrote:
Hi all,
And, yes, I will made her aware of free alternative math training apps, but the child will not be able to use the same app. At the end, we're talking about math here. Does learning math need one special software? If yes, then we're doomed.
Cheers, #pasquale
Hi!
It's Sunday and the *rant* was interesting.
I can only add two pieces of information.
In South Tyrol one Party is systematically pushing for the arguments you indicate, another Party is somewhat less active, but still follows these matters. Both these Parties are in the opposition. The most important local Party (no names named) is absolutely against the principles you mention. At least they are consequent, because they are against free software both in words and in deeds. Let's recognize it - no hypocrisy.
The second consideration is that on the Raspberry Pi operating system, in the Russian Linux distribution "Astra" and, if I remember well, also in the Chinese Ubuntu Kylin distribution some educational math packages are part of the main installation. You don't even need to look for them in the store, they are ready to be started from the main menu. One click, and you go. It's an indirect message from the developer (Raspberry Pi) and the Authorities (Russia and China). An important one.
Raspberry Pi was initially developed for sale in 3rd world countries in particular to support their educational efforts. Astra and Kylin shall become normative in their respective countries, including in schools. The problem you describe wouldn't arise there.
Gianguido
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On Sun, 2021-11-21 at 10:50 +0100, Pasqualino Imbemba wrote:
Hi all,
And, yes, I will made her aware of free alternative math training apps, but the child will not be able to use the same app. At the end, we're talking about math here. Does learning math need one special software? If yes, then we're doomed.
Cheers, #pasquale
Hi!
It's Sunday and the *rant* was interesting.
I can only add two pieces of information.
In South Tyrol one Party is systematically pushing for the arguments you indicate, another Party is somewhat less active, but still follows these matters. Both these Parties are in the opposition. The most important local Party (no names named) is absolutely against the principles you mention. At least they are consequent, because they are against free software both in words and in deeds. Let's recognize it - no hypocrisy.
The second consideration is that on the Raspberry Pi operating system, in the Russian Linux distribution "Astra" and, if I remember well, also in the Chinese Ubuntu Kylin distribution some educational math packages are part of the main installation. You don't even need to look for them in the store, they are ready to be started from the main menu. One click, and you go. It's an indirect message from the developer (Raspberry Pi) and the Authorities (Russia and China). An important one.
Raspberry Pi was initially developed for sale in 3rd world countries in particular to support their educational efforts. Astra and Kylin shall become normative in their respective countries, including in schools. The problem you describe wouldn't arise there.
Gianguido
-
Diego Maniacco -
Gianguido Piani -
Hugo Leiter -
Paolo Dongilli -
Pasqualino Imbemba